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McDojo Posted on: 4/1/2011 8:45
#1 More Shocking Danstistic aka Dansgate
SHOCKING DANSTISTIC AKA DANSGATE

The year 2010 is just over and Happy New Year to all MCM members and guest visitors

While browsing the website of ICTF Taekwon-Do website to check on the black belt promotion of a friend's son, I was shock to learn the following statistic (what I call "Danstistic")

For the entire 2010 year, the following black belt promotions from Malaysia were recorded at the website : ( http://www.worldictf.com/home/en/promosall/2010-promotions.html )

Four were promoted to black belt 7th Dan (Masters)
One was promoted to black belt 6th Dan
One was promoted to black belt 5th Dan
Two were promoted to black belt 4th Dan
Three were promoted to black belt 2nd Dan
NONE was promoted to black belt 1st Dan
(For 1st Dan category, 56 are from Canada, 11 from UK, 3 from Belgium and 2 from our neighbour, Singapore, what happen to the rest?)

What happen to all the newly promoted black belt 1st Dan holders who were graded by these seniors/examiners who themselves got promoted "officially"? There must be many many times more than the number of Masters promoted in 2010? Were these newly "promoted" 1st Dan black belt holders issued with black belt 1st Dan testimonials or certificates which are only recognised by the examiners themselves? According the ITF rules (I believe it should be the same for ICTF), the examiner only gets 20% of the grading fee. By not registering with ICTF, the examiner gets 100% of the grading fee? Why ICTF (Promotion Committee) is not aware that there was not a single 1st Dan promotion in 2010 from Malaysia and the grading fees are being siphoned by these examiners? What does the above means? Are these senior black belt holders only taking care of themselves?

So many questions are remained unanswered.

Some of those in the promotion lists do not have the necessary waiting/grace period/years according to the present dan for black belt promotions as required by the founder of Taekwon-Do, the late General Choi Hong Hi. For e.g. to be promoted to 7th Dan (Master), one has to be a 6th Dan for at least 6 years. This can be confirmed with promotion lists of previous years (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010). Now, it would be seen to the public that ICTF offers fast track Dan promotions? What would the public judge on the standard of the TKD black belt holders now?

It doesn't take a whistle blower (I'm not one) to tell ICTF, or the CID, FBI or our MACC to discover and investigate the matters because it is all in the internet accessible to everyone!

Ironically, ICTF International Ch’ang-Hon Taekwon-Do Federation was formed by senior members of ITF International Taekwon-Do Federation in 2002 after (or before) the passing of the then President of ITF, the late General Choi Hong Hi on the ground of politics in ITF organisation and vowed to maintained the founder's philosophy (Ch’ang-Hon Spirit). Such open politicking as mentioned above was allowed to happen has been a disgrace to Taekwon-Do and the late General Choi

I am sad about these happenings in Malaysia and feel that it is not fair to Taekwon-Do and the late General Choi Hong Hi!

Regards

"Not A Whistle Blower"

P.S.

The pages for the promotion at ICTF website (http://www.worldictf.com/home/en/promosall/2010-promotions.html ) has been removed by ICTF webmaster. Does it means sweeping the dirt under the carpet?



Update:

The Promotion webpage is restored but with different format now. The promotions are listed according to the Dans and not the years.

In anticipation of the changes, the original Promotion webpages had been screen captured prior to the changes. You can view the screen captures of original webpage at:

http://www.mypicx.com/01192011/ICTF_Deleted_Promotion_Webpages/


Please click the thumbnails to view in full size.
Martian Posted on: 8/1/2011 10:05
#2 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Oops!!

Look who is in promotion commnittee
Martian Posted on: 19/1/2011 12:54
#3 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Take off the dan promotion webpage just like erase the evidence?
McDojo Posted on: 20/1/2011 22:02
#4 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Update:

The Promotion webpage is restored but with different format now. The promotions are listed according to the Dans and not the year.

In anticipation of the changes, the original Promotion webpages had been screen captured prior to the changes. You can view the screen captures of original webpage at:

http://www.mypicx.com/01192011/ICTF_Deleted_Promotion_Webpages/

Please click the thumbnails to view in full size.
principa Posted on: 22/1/2011 14:16
#5 Re: Shocking Danstistic
you can also contact any of the ICTF Masters in Malaysia to get answers for your research
McDojo Posted on: 27/1/2011 14:32
#6 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Dear Principa:

This is not a research but rather an awareness campaign to let the students and the parents know that they had been short changed by these masters/examiners who issued worthless testimonials/certificates instead of registering them with ICTF as they had done for themselves.

It is these masters/examiners who should answer to these students/parents.

Regards

"Not A Whistle Blower"
Transient Posted on: 28/1/2011 11:23
#7 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Hello, a bit shocked to see the assumptions in the first post.

This is my take of the situation.

The instructors collect fees for each grading, whether the student passes or not is another matter. If the student passes, and manages to obtain a 1st degree, he/she has the choice to apply for an International Certificate from the ICTF.

I think there are many BBs in Malaysia who didn't apply for the International Certificate, hence the lack of Malaysians in the list of recent promotion for 1st degree.

If the BB holder wants to be recognized internationally, then he/she has to apply for the International Certificate, and any payment is done directly to ICTF.
McDojo Posted on: 29/1/2011 17:54
#8 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Dear Transient:

The 1st posting of “Shocking Danstistic” is neither a research nor any assumption made. The dans statistic or “Danstistic” are all facts that were available in the ICTF Promotion webpage until the anticipated change in format not to show the years of promotion. Fortunately the pages were prior screen captured and available as evidence in an image hosting website.

In just one year duration and only in Malaysia, there were:
4 new black belt 7th Dans (Masters)
1 black belt 6th Dan
1 black belt 5th Dan
2 black belt 4th Dans
3 black belt 2nd Dans
ZERO black belt 1st Dan

The above are hard facts from the Promotion webpage.

Now according to your assumption, a student who passed the black belt grading has the option of applying or not applying the international black belt certificate. Common sense will tell us that the student will definitely opt to apply for the international ICTF certificate (since he/she paid the same grading fee to the examiner) unless the ICTF instructor intentionally did not inform the student or the parent on the option or necessity and importance for an international certificate. So according to your assumption and the fact the there were not a single application for 1st dan black belt, all the students failed the grading in the whole of 2010 OR all the ICTF instructors did not inform the students who passed the grading the option to apply for international certificates and examiners pocketed all the grading fees instead of only getting 20% or so if the students get the ICTF certificates. Which is the likely one?

The founder of TKD, late General Choi Hong Hi had set the rule that only the federation is allowed to issue black belt certificates. The national bodies are only allowed to issue testimonials upon passing the black belt gradings. Testimonials are meant to be temporary recognition of the students’ black belt status while waiting for the national body to collect sufficient applications with the grading fees to apply for the international certificates. Since ICTF is claiming to follow late General Choi’s Ch’ang Hon style of TKD, the rule is followed. Individual students cannot apply for their international certificates. Only through the national body that they can get their international certificates. The applications must be through the national body not individually as mentioned by you.

Now the examiners issue certificate-like testimonials to the students who passed the grading without further applying on behalf of them the international certificates for the obvious reason mentioned above. Some are even awarded with dan certificates by the examiners. With the certificate-like testimonials or local certificates, these ignorant students and parents feel proud of their achievements without further questioning. This is the typical scenario in Malaysia and these instructors and examiners are aware of their wrong doings. Such wrong doings happened since years ago but there wasn’t any statistic or whistle blower for this until the ZERO ICTF 1st dan black belt promotion in 2010. Thanks to the ICTF webmaster!

Sigh! All these won’t had happened if this posting could be written much earlier and these students and their parents had read this posting in forum of Malaysia Martial Arts Community.

Regards

"Not A Whistle Blower"
supremegm Posted on: 14/2/2011 21:38
#9 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Dear “not a whistle blower”

Regarding your Danstistic articles in this Forum  which are not  very true in facts. As I can see that you do not know and well verse in our ICTF rules and regulation. You may be from ITF-NK group member.

 As you claimed that the instructors did not apply the ICTF black belt cert for the student especially 1st Dan which may not be fully true.  You thought that ICTF give 20% discount on BB Cert application for the ICTF Instructor as same as ITF-NK which You were wrong. As ICTF has a standard rate of USD 100 per BB  Cert from 1st Dan to 8th Dan beside the grading fees which is set according to the discretion of the examiner. Pls revisit ICTF webpage on form application section.
 
You may not know that Active ICTF members in Malaysia is only a few of us (GM Ally, Mstr Nelson, Mstr Lim HH, Mstr Bobby, Mstr Ch'ng, Mstr Leon and Gary Tong)
 
You thought that only national body from a country can apply International cert for the student instead of individual which again you were wrong. AS ICTF policy manual is clearly stated individual Voting member can apply BB cert half from their rank except 7-9 Dan Master & GM which is a belt below. And moreover there is no way we can form another national body in Malaysia beside ITFM & MGTF.(Ch'ang-Hon style TKD)
 
You Are using ITF-NK Rules & Regulation to compare against ICTF policy which show that You Are new in Martial arts. You claim that individual instructor issue certificate from their own organisation or school instead international cert. Again I have to clarify, any Individual Master or instructor has the right to issue their own organisation cert with additional to ICTF cert. Nowsaday whether a organisation BB Cert is recognise by other organisation is no more important which many just recognize their own members only. What a use a Martial artist holding a high Dan in one Organisation but know nothing much about Patterns or Martial arts/self defense knowledge with just strip on the belt.
 
E.g As far as I know, Some Masters do apply ICTF cert for their student and even apply a ICTF cert for their old Black belt student. But most of the student
(mostly still color belt). E.g One of the Master even give an option to the students parents with an additional RM 250 for ICTF cert beside his grading fees (RM 300) with 1 black belt for 1st Dan grading student. But most parents do not wish to spend additional money for the ICTF cert as all is still Primary School students.
 
 
Again this show that you are newbie in TKD. There are many TKD organisation in this world beside ITF and all has their own policy and constitution which I think you may not even aware of beside ITF-NK which Black Belt cert is not recognize by the other dispute ITF group( ITF-C and ITF-V). E.g of other Ch'ang-Hon/ITF style TKD org/group were ITF-C, ITF-V,ITF-NK, ICTF, GTF, GTFI, GTI, UITF, TKD International, UTF, UTA, ITA, WTA, IOTF,RTF, AIMMA, CTF,ITTAF, ATI, TKT, ICTO, TKD Pioneers, GTS, GTA etc.

But most of the TKD org still follows the 24 patterns and also the belt ranking created by Gen Choi and others TKD pioneers regardless of whether they follow the Sinewave system or not. But tournament rules and organisation policy may not be the same.

Hope you now can understand how others organisation run their group.
supremegm Posted on: 15/2/2011 10:34
#10 Re: Shocking Danstistic
Dear McDojo/ not a whistle blower

ICTF change their promotion webpage format is part of the new website upgrade and changes exercise and nothing to do with your articles. The changes of the format has been rooted since last year.

I do not know your friend's son is under which ICTF instructor but if the instructor is one of the active ICTF members in Malaysia that I mentioned in my above reply he can apply for his ICTF BB cert at USD 100 plus shipping cost of USD 45. The grading fees always is separate from certificate application fees it is the same goes to ITF. Of course ITF-NK group BB cert is expensive then ICTF but every organisations have their own fees structure.

And if you or anybody want to know more detail about ICTF you can contact the ICTF membership Committee chair and President Kwang Jang Master Cariati. Or for TKD classes you can contact GM Ally Teoh in Malacca ICTF Secretary General and ICTF Malaysia working committee President. If you in Subang area you can contact Master Bobby Teo ICTF Malaysia working committee Secretary, or If you in PJ area you can contact Master Nelson or KL area Master Lim both ICTF Malaysia Vice President, or if you in Shah Alam area you can contact Gary Tong ICTF Malaysia Technical and Umpire Committee Chairman, or if you in Klang area you can contact steven William Visual Martial Arts TKD Sr Instructor, or if you in Penang area you can contact ICTF Malaysia Treasurer Master Ch'ng or if you in Cheras area you can contact our new member Master Leon Ng. How to get their contact pls leave your e-mail add. and I will ask them to contact you.

ICTF so far is a fair and democratic organisation and less TKD politic organisation that I ever join compare to other organisation that I had joined before. ICTF offer fair and reasonable fees for Malaysia ICTF member beside a good support and encouragement from HQ especially the President himself. Although we are small in numbers in Malaysia but we all respecting each other.

For those interested to join as an individual Voting member in ICTF, kindly contact ICTF adminstration. For more info on ICTF pls log on to www.ictf.info.

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